As you might have noticed, there was a bit of drama lately around the moderation of !europe@feddit.org and feddit.org in general, with a result being the creation of !Europe@lemmy.dbzer0.com.
So, I just checked the modlogs for unrelated reasons and stumbled upon this:
I have never engaged with this new community nor have I participated in any discussion around the aforementioned issues before the ban. I made one comment yesterday that refers to the discussion and one comment three days ago arguing about the way the feddit admins argued their point and stating the holocaust was on a much larger scale than the genocide against Palestine.
I don’t know if I want this situation to be remedied though as this to me looks like guilty by association (I engage a lot with communities on feddit.org since I’m german and it’s the largest german instance with a lot of relevant communities, so, duh) but I want to know if I oversaw something or if this is the style of moderation in the new community or the whole instance.
This is the lowest quality Thread I have ever participated in this sub.
Too many bad faith actors came for it so at least we know we are going the right way lol
Cant tell if this your normal genocide apologist or German bootlicker variety but someone is big mad about the work that has been done in this community 🐸
Now the dust has settled and I’ve seen both sides presented, i’m gonna say YDI on this one. The whole purpose of that community was in response to the Zionist position of feddit mods, so of course they are gonna ban Zionists.
Seems those folks aren’t above trolling with throwaway accounts either. I had to remove a lot of nasty transphobic comments from this post, which might give a clue as to the character of some of the folks who are being banned. Not suggesting they came from OP btw.
I’d like to disagree with you. The whole purpose (or at least the stated purpose, but that would mean that the creator lied) was to create a community “free of censorship”
To lure people into the community with the promise of a community “free of censorship” and then censor in the opposite way is just wrong.
The whole purpose (or at least the stated purpose, but that would mean that the creator lied) was to create a community “free of censorship”
I don’t think that was the intent at all. What the mod of the new Europe community objects to is the censorship by feddit mods of anything critical of Israel or critical of Zionism.
Fact is we aren’t a “free speech” instance and have never claimed to be. The community rules are in fact very clear that Zionism isn’t allowed (see below). Anyone who want to go whine about how the leftists at dbzer0 are all terrorist Hamas supporters because we want to stop Israel from starving children to death can go join the circle jerk over at feddit I guess.
- No Zionism
Any forms of Zionism or Zionist rhetoric will not be tolerated here, this includes Zionist apologia, accusations of antisemitism towards anti-Zionists, or blatant denial or downplaying of the genocide towards Palestinians. Any attempt to uphold or prop up the IHRA definition of antisemitism, will be treated as Zionism. Anyone engaging in Pro-Zionist sentiment or apologia will be actioned in accordance with its severity.
Yes I made it very clear and upfront that Zionist apologia is not allowed, I never said or claimed it was a free speech community or that there wouldn’t be censorship. The fact that this thread was swarmed with sockpuppet trolls attacking me and the community just further proves I’m on the right path, and I will continue to issue bans to people acting like Zionist trolls or apologists.
If you review most recent threads here, you will notice that we got some shill op underway.
While I hate censorship, in this case we are facing bad faith actors using throw away accounts. They are not here for discussion, this is retaliation for feddit.org europe community being exposed for being genocide enablers and apologists of israel and zionists.
You are wasting your breath on him. Look at this thread:
Ahh we already went through this with this shill lol
Ty for heads up
😁
Wow all the throwaway too lol YDI
Yeah agreed. This has to be one of the worst threads I’ve seen on here.
YDI, don’t support genocide.
Lol, I don’t though.
Removed by mod
No state deserves to exist, especially not a cult based ethnostate committing a genocide.
I don’t know why you think ‘deserves’ has anything to do with being a nation
No nation ‘deserves’ to exist, they were all carved out through blood and suffering
That’s what power is. You don’t need to ‘deserve’ anything if you have the power to take it
You are treating nations like human neighbors and that is not what they are at all. Wagging your finger and saying ‘naughty naughty’ is a useless geopolitical gesture
Removed by mod
The Jewish people deserve a homeland
Why don’t they take a piece of germany? Why are they killing off Arabs for it? Do they deserve it more than Arabs?
Removed by mod
For some reason I don’t see this fifty-five minute old account surviving much longer.
You called it.
Hi. Thank you for posting this. I apologize that I didn’t put the link to the comment in question in the reason or make it more clear. I have searched for and have re-applied the ban with a new reason including the link to your comment which prompted the ban. To specify, the claim that it is antisemitic to believe Israel shouldn’t exist as a nation state is considered Zionist apologia. Rule 2 Prohibits Zionism in any form, and extends on and off community. This isn’t the place to debate that or its merit.
Bans for bigotry and Zionism may be issued preemptively due to their severity and the fact that they undermine the values of the community. They will not be tolerated and if people really want to express Zionism or bigotry there are other places they can go.
Now I am open to appeals if people believe I made a mistake or if they believe they made a mistake, and of course you are free to appeal in the future when/if there is a new top mod in the community. But for now I think we’re done here. I hope I was able to clear things up and I hope you have a nice day.
Removed by mod
So, explaining German law is zionism now?lmao.
and of course you are free to appeal in the future
Yeah, no, thanks, I’m fine. I don’t want to be in a community with people who want to answer a genocide with genocide.
. I don’t want to be in a community with people who want to answer a genocide with genocide.
🤦
Lol he just showed his true colors and that he deserved it all along.
Lol he just showed his true colors
Yes.
he deserved it all along.
I am not convinced. I prefer debate to bans unless someone explicitly call for genocide or dehumanise people.
I get that but also people who post in europe are getting tired of debating with every idiot who accuses them of being an antisemite, or hypocrite for following Greta Thunberg, or be asked stupid gotcha strawmans like claiming being against Israel is a call for genocide. These types of spaces are great for that kind of debate. But right now the sheer volume of Zionist trolls makes it risky to open Europe up for debate with them which is why they are blanket banned currently.
As I said before, it is up to you but my preference would be to talk to them.
Cretinous behaviour of halfwit Europe@feddit.org mods killed the debate over there, it would be nice to have a place to discuss and even fight them (with words) openly.
I am with you… Modding should not be pre emptive and it should be used as last resort. With that being said, we have some serious bad faith actors trolling here with fresh accounts.
If these bitches can’t use their regular account to speak their opinion, I don’t think they deserve a platform IMHO
Somebody got triggered by the good work done here recently, good 🐸
answer a genocide with genocide.
What does this mean? This seems like a bad faith accusation which is in extremely poor taste right now. Are you trying to say that I encourage or death or harm to Israelis? Is that what you’re saying? It sounds a lot like that’s what you’re implying. It’s lovely when the mask comes right off and reveals people’s true intentions.
You seem to equate any opinion on this topic that does not call for the dissolution of the state of Israel with zionism. And obviously, you regard zionism as something very negative (I’m not saying it isn’t, I’m just trying to be comprehensive and therefore state something trivial, too). Ergo, you seem to regard the existence of the state of Israel as something negative. The logical solution to that is that you see the dissolution of the state of Israel as something desirable.
Now, keep in mind that the following does not have a say about anything regarding the situation in Gaza. As I stated elsewhere, there’s a genocide happening against Palestinians, there’s no denying that and anyone supporting that is just an asshole at least.
However, what do you think would happen to the Israeli that currently live in Israel? I’m not talking about West Bank “settlers” or other genocide tools, I’m talking about the majority of Israeli, the civilians, the jewish families who lived in Israel for generations now. They’d most likely be killed, displayed and all of that. And that’s genocide, too.
Was creating the state of Israel a mistake when it happened? Probably. Would a single state where everyone lives together peacefully preferable? Definitely (and globally so, too). But is it possible to dissolve the state of Israel without a genocide against the jews there? Highly unlikely.
Hence you’re arguing to answer genocide with genocide.Also, I’m not going to get deeper into the argument. I never really wanted to get into this topic and I still just not want to get deeper into this cesspool. You made me though and therefore I’m blocking you now and I hope you’re gonna be able to reflect on some stuff. Farewell.
This is the same genocide apologia literally every single genocidal state has made.
Hell, every Apartheid state (not even genocidal) makes this same argument to justify apartheid.
You’re not even evil in any original sense.
You’re ‘Evil, the classic flavor’
However, what do you think would happen to the Israeli that currently live in Israel?
The same what happened to Germans living in Germany after WW2 or to white south Africans after the fall of apartheid - nothing. Apart from war criminals of course, these should be arrested, have just but swift trials and go to prisons for the rest of their lives.
The problem is he’s framing it under the typical evil Zionist strawman that Israel not being a state implies violence when it doesn’t and the majority of people saying it aren’t implying that either. This is a blatant bad faith argument that has no substance or merit because he’s trying to create a fake gotcha so he can claim his Zionist beliefs are correct.
It is an argument which can be easily exposed though.
Thank you for proving to everyone what kind of person you are, yeah you lost most of the respect you had with the implication you made in your first response and you lost the rest when you confirmed yourself as exactly the Zionist apologist we thought you were. Good riddance.
Removed by mod
What are you hoping to accomplish by creating all these accounts and posting the same nonsense? You’re not going to make the mods here mad; deleting your post and banning you from the community is like two clicks and takes like 10 seconds. All you’re going to do is get the admins of the instance you’re abusing to require approval for accounts and this will hurt people who would like to make an account there for a valid reason.
Tl;dr Israel sucks and so do you.
Israel doesn’t deserve shit and neither do you
Removed by mod
You are a loser, if it’s multiple people doing this you are all losers. No one is listening to you, they think you’re lying trolls and they are right to think that. Take the hint and fuck off!
Not YDI but not PTB. Both sides are in the right. Saying the holocaust was worse than what Israel is doing in Gaza is a true statement but at the same time sounds like you are trying to make what is happening in Gaza seem like not a big deal (which it is) and sounds like zionist apologia if you don’t make it obvious you dislike what Israel are doing.
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
First check the dates. As mentioned, the ban happened a week ago, the comment you’re referring to was posted afterwards.
Second, isn’t it enough to state that Israel is conducting a genocide against Palestine to make clear I’m against that? I mean, who actually likes genocides (except for some rare weird and dangerous lunatics)?
Second, isn’t it enough to state that Israel is conducting a genocide against Palestine to make clear I’m against that?
No, not when paired with zionist apologia. It would be like saying 'The nazis are committing genocide, but they still have a right to exist". The net outcome of the two statements is barely more than a finger wag.
Isreal must be stopped at all costs, including the dissolution of Israel as a Jewish state if necessary.
That isn’t what I originally banned them for. I updated the entry in the modlog to include a link to the original comment which got them banned but that comment doesn’t help their cause should they want to get an appeal later.
No, not when paired with zionist apologia. It would be like saying 'The nazis are committing genocide, but they still have a right to exist"
I didn’t though.
I guess that’s true, probably leaning towards PTB now
Removed by mod
YDI
Interesting activity
🍿
stating the holocaust was on a much larger scale than the genocide against Palestine.
This aint victim Olympics, WW2 was 80 years ago, Gaza is now.
Either way, you should not be getting banned for expressing an opinion. I am so tired every fucking clown mod trying to pull out ban hammer for shit they don’t agree with.
I guess we deserve what we got with this level of intellectual discourse 🤡
Look at this commenters comments now. Do you see why they got banned?
Either way, you should not be getting banned for expressing an opinion.
Lemmy is definitely moving in this direction though. More often now, I’m seeing users banned simply for expressing opinions that aren’t popular on the platform, even when those opinions are presented thoughtfully and without inflammatory language.
It used to be that only people using extreme or aggressive language combined with the unpopular opinion would get banned. Now, even calm, reasoned arguments are being removed.
To be clear, I’m not defending or attacking OP. I don’t have a stance on their views.
What concerns me is the growing trend of blanket bans just because someone holds a different opinion. That kind of environment isn’t healthy for open discussion.
It used to be that only people using extreme or aggressive language combined with the unpopular opinion would get banned. Now, even calm, reasoned arguments are being removed.
This is completely absurd and subjective. For example, nazism is always offensive regardless of tone or “reason”. Other forms of fascism (eg. zionism) are no different. This kind of tone policing is just liberal privilege in service to fascism.
My point is I am seeing words like “Nazi” and “Fascism” thrown around for the the tiniest of things now. It’s becoming a common complaint/insult thrown to anyone that doesn’t fall in line with group Lemmy-think.
Yes, real nazis and fascists are scum. But calling someone those because they don’t fucking like your choice of phone or because they drive a car you don’t like is a bit extreme. And I see Lemmy moving that direction.
Being an asshole is still allowed. Now I am all for blocking people with opinions you don’t like, or even blocking them for something petty and silly. “Banning” them is uncalled for.
But it’s Lemmy, so I know people don’t take criticism here well. lol At the end fo the day, i don’t give a shit. Extremist can run the platform into the ground. People will leave, we’ll find other platforms, and Lemmy can stay a small niche group of echo-chambers that yell at the world because it’s not molding to their vision.
Lemmy is not the only forum around, and I don’t see it growing much if people keep censoring and being so extreme. I don’t care enough to really fight for it either way. I’m fine either way, friend. :)
I’m seeing users banned simply for expressing opinions that aren’t popular on the platform, even when those opinions are presented thoughtfully and without inflammatory language.
Good. Stop allowing the human filth to hide behind honeyd words and start punishing them for their actual opinions
Agreed. If we allow horrible people to run wild in communities just because they’re being polite communities would be toxic as fuck. There is no polite or acceptable transphobia, there is no polite or acceptable Zionism. That shit is a cancer that needs to be cut out of any community where you see it growing. I’m sick of seeing people stand up for and apologize for hateful evil people like that because they’re “being poltie” or “just expressing ‘opinions’ man” fuck that.
Think about your words there. Let’s say that you were getting banned by republicans. And they’re reasoning was: “Good. Stop allowing the human filth to hide behind honeyd words and start punishing them for their actual opinions”
See how that works? I don’t know if you are in the US, but here in the use, we do have freedom of opinion–even if it’s an unsavory shitty opinion.
Let’s say that you were getting banned by republicana
Don’t hang out in Nazi bars, so nah
we do have freedom of opinion
Against the government, not your fellow citizens, idiot
Name-calling, nice. Notice I haven’t called you any names.
Here’s the thing: You’re pro-censorship. I’m anti-censorship.
Disengage. We’re not gonna agree. All good, friend.
This aint victim Olympics, WW2 was 80 years ago, Gaza is now.
That’s not the point, never was (at least not mine). Anyway, that’s also not the point O want to discuss here.
But I agree with you. The lefties once more tearing up itself while the fascists are laughing.
Ptb
Makes a community to escape censorship, begins to censor themselves
Can’t make this shit up, I swear
That you?:
lmao imagine thrawling my account and all you can find is a factually correct statement.
for everyone else, the context is the following: I wrote “jews” and the other person told me to capitalize it to “Jews” because you capitalize “nationality names” and judaism apparently was a nationality (the one of Israel) (makes absolutely no sense, I know).
It’s not factually true, although they gave you the wrong reason.
You capitalize “Jews” for the same reason you capitalize “Christians” or “Muslims” or “Episcopalians”. The names of religions or religious groups are capitalized when used as nouns.
I gave him the right reason and he was referring to nationality/ethnicity and not to the religion in his original post. Although yes, even his made up explanations don’t make sense.
The names of religions or religious groups are capitalized when used as nouns.
I did not even know this but yes going forward all lower case!
Oh you’re a pizza cutter, my mistake.
akshually a grammer nazi
You are still fucking slow 🤣
PTB
Maybe they think you’re a zionist because lot of german users have been defending feddit taking down anti zionist getting taken down because of some german bootlicker law.
They’ll ban everything and everyone there. Their manifesto is a self-declared war on “zionism”, but they don’t really know what that is. It’s exactly the same like with the old LinuxSucks community where they’d ban everyone for commenting anything that could be construed as positive towards Linux. And it’s the homebase for their down-voting brigade.
PTB for sure.
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
