Sort of a follow up to my topic asking why NDE Research wasn’t taken seriously. Which btw I got great replies to.

I was expecting the usual “Oh near death isn’t REALLY death.” And “Because its bullshit.” Strawman non answers

But instead I got people interfacing with the data and pointing out that an afterlife was no the direction the data headed outside of spirituality circles that did not interpret the data correctly to begin with.

So looking at how everything to do with conciousness leads to the brain and how we have discovered that a sense of self separate from the body is illusionary.

I have to ask

Is it an open secret that the afterlife is debunked?

I can find tons of arguments and information against it and the only thing supporting basically going “Well the brain is your conciousness but no one knows for sure.”

So a “I’m not saying no, but I sure as hell am not saying yes.” Being the strongest yes isn’t exactly reassuring. It makes me think the “I don’t know” is actually a “no” trying to be polite

  • Canaconda@lemmy.caEnglish
    42·
    10 days ago

    Layman here:

    Speculatively speaking; everything we know about our bodies’ response to death/trauma indicates that our own bodies do not believe in an afterlife. Everything from flight>fight>freeze to seeing your life flash before your eyes near death.

    I believe that “god” or “afterlife” as defined cannot be measured by science. Conversely if we did discover a functional god/afterlife they would not fit the colloquial definitions. Either way they don’t exist; as defined.

    • QueenHawlSera@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
      2·
      9 days ago

      I’m sorry but what does the body’s reaction to trauma have to do with a possible afterlife. I do not see how those are connected.

      • Canaconda@lemmy.caEnglish
        11·
        9 days ago

        The body’s determination to avoid death indicates that if there is an afterlife, it does not have a physiological connection that our biological bodies can detect.

        Fight: The threat of death presents itself > Adrenalin and cortisol spike increasing heart rate and blood pressure to prepare for action.

        Flight: The threat cannot be fought. Noradrenaline spikes to engage blood flow in the muscles to assist with fleeling.

        Freeze: The threat has overwealmed us. The parasympathetic nervous system slows our heart rate, lowers blood pressure, and contracts blood flow in the extremities; as a last ditch effort to survive the traumatic and potentially fatal incoming damage.

        Near Death: Brain activity spikes. It increases production of the protein hamartin, which helps neurons survive oxygen and glucose deprivation. It releases DMT changing the activity in the frontal cortex and in some cases causing memories to be rapidly recalled.

        …

        The main caveat to this theory is if neuroscience discovers that our brains know something we don’t and are uploading/backing-up/doing-something we have no evidence for at this time.

        • QueenHawlSera@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
          1·
          8 days ago

          I thought the idea that DMT released during an NDE had been disputed or at least that not enough DMT was released to trip.

          Either way. I get your point but do not necessarily agree that the body’s reluctance to die disproves an afterlife especially since if the afterlife is real that means the body is not the self.

          That said I am not as confident in the afterlife as I used to be.

          I had a view that our souls grew overtime with our bodies being like cocoons that gave up the soul after a period of growth…

          After a close friend of mine died and I couldn’t see his death as anything but a horrible tragedy I became more reluctant to believe in such things.

          • Canaconda@lemmy.caEnglish
            11·
            8 days ago

            https://www.removepaywall.com/search?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.popularmechanics.com%2Fscience%2Fa63831340%2Fdmt-near-death-experience%2F

            It’s inferred because we see it in animals, but have yet to scientifically observe it in humans for obvious ethical reasons.

            I get your point but do not necessarily agree that the body’s reluctance to die disproves an afterlife especially since if the afterlife is real that means the body is not the self.

            1. So you asked for evidence that the afterlife doesn’t exist. As such the mere assumption that the afterlife does exist is not a sufficient refutation of the evidence presented to you. I’m not disagreeing with your assessment, just pointing out that the way you’re conducting this discussion is inappropriate for a science based community.

            2. You actually don’t get my point. I’m not saying biology disproves the existence of the afterlife.

            I’m saying based on biological behaviour, whatever afterlife might exist, doesn’t interact with our biology in a way that our biology is aware of said afterlife’s existence.

            That’s why my caveat regarding NDE is that maybe the brain is uploading your spirit to heaven we just don’t have the neurological understanding to observe that currently.

            • QueenHawlSera@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
              1·
              8 days ago

              I’m saying based on biological behaviour, whatever afterlife might exist, doesn’t interact with our biology in a way that our biology is aware of said afterlife’s existence.

              Ah my apologies, I didn’t realize that’s what you meant. Sorry you’re right I actually did not get your point and am dumb.