How did they “harass it”. You still haven’t managed to explain that. The person the mod replied to never said the US is not authoritarian. They can disagree with the mod and still think the US is authoritarian. Stop being a dumbass and defending another dumbass.

Slacktivists won’t like this, though.

Yeah, and unfortunately most people fall in that category. Just need to look at how many people say “we need another Luigi”, and “someone should Luigi Elon/Zuckerberg/whoever”, it’s always someone else who should do something while they remain online making memes. Sometimes it’s the government who “should do something about global warming, while I keep choosing to follow a meat based diet that is more expensive and much worse for the climate than a plant based one, because I shouldn’t have to do anything!”

Someone else should always do something about the thing, because heaven forbid those people actually do something and give up some comforts.

Accepting gay people requires an open mind.

Unfortunately, this isn’t true. It might be true for some number of the first people, but after that it’s just another thing people learn to accept because they were told to. That’s why even after homosexually become relatively accepted, you still had so much bigotry against bi people, and it’s why nowadays you still have so anti-trans people - a lot of whom would call themselves “open minded” just because they are accepting of gay people.

Let me give you a helping hand.

you don’t understand why people are celebrating the fact that he reminded us the only way actual change has ever happened historically.

If I’m wrong and don’t understand, why have none of the millions of people who supposedly back him followed suit? Why are you here instead of out there? Are you getting guns? Are you organizing with other people? Are you doing anything (praxis) towards achieving change in “the only way actual change has ever happened historically”? Or are you just spending your time online talking about it? As I said and will say again, Luigi is the scape goat of “revolutionaries” who don’t really engage in any praxis. The “I” in question (you) gets to remain at home, on their device of choice, talking about how (…) heroic the “some else” who took the risk (Luigi) is.

You also said previously:

What’s relevant here and now is that the mass murderers up top are scared shitless, and we need to keep them that way.

I - unlike you it seems - don’t want there to be “mass murderers up top” at all, or in fact for there to be anyone “up top” (totally in line with DNC^/s). You say I don’t want change, and that the thing you want is what affects actual change, and yet it seems you want no change other than - as I said in my original comment - for the powerful to be nicer (in this case, due to fear). Yet, somehow, I’m the one defending capitalists and being a class traitor. You also seem to have missed the fact - or just not understand - that the CEO is not the “true” capitalist; those are the owners of the companies, for whom the CEO works.

Lastly, I will reiterate one thing, and add something more relevant. If you have enough people to enact change through violence and defend yourself of the consequences, then nothing can stop you from just creating separate/parallel systems and side step the current one (the DNC totally wants you to do this btw^/s). And if you actually want to go further than surface level into history, then go look at all the French revolutions as an example, read about them in detail, and see how many ended with an authoritarian in power.

If that still hasn’t made my point clear, then nothing I say will; I’m ending the conversation here.

that the DNC has been parroting for my entire 44 years of life

Imagine thinking anything I said is allied with the DNC. Or that said anything about “incremental”. Imagine reading what I said and then calling me a “class traitor” or “class apologist”. You’re either a bold faced liar, have the reading comprehension and politics understanding of a 4th grader, or your definition of reading is the same as that of people who “enjoy reading dystopian books” but complain about books becoming political.

Ok, so you definitely didn’t read it. Perhaps you looked at the words, but clearly you did not read them. Cool. So glad to see this place become indistinguishable from reddit…

Did you bother to read anything I said? Saying you did something doesn’t make it true. Trump has also alluded that his foreign tariffs will bring prices down. Does that make it true?

No, he didn’t. Deluding ourselves of that will just stop the problem from being truly fixed. Just look at how many people’s take away from this is “maybe now CEOs will be nicer and more empathetic?”. I shouldn’t have to explain the problem with that, but I will expand on it by saying that the CEO is really just a scape goat; the real guilty ones are the owners, who are also the people that appoint CEOs, and who the CEOs have to please. This hasn’t solved anything, and without a systemic change things will just go back to the way they were; if only because we exist in a very fast news cycle and the average person will most likely soon forget and just go back to their daily rut.

People want simple easy answers. This is true for everything, and it’s no less true now. It’s easy to sit at home and make memes and glorify someone else who - despite the fact I disagree with his methods - actually took action and did something, even if it meant risking comforts, privileges, or in this case even a death penalty; it makes people feel like they are doing something without having to take any real risks and without really changing anything, but it feels “effective” because it makes a lot of noise and creates a lot of headlines.

If you really want change, then more needs to be done. And sure, one way would be for more to follow Luigi’s footsteps, but - and I won’t even go into the pitfalls of that path - if you have enough people on your side for that to be successful and not be prosecuted/defend yourself from prosecution, then you could achieve similar societal change peacefully by community building and through mutual aid; side step existing capitalist and government institutions. But that takes actual effort; that takes actual willpower to affect real change; that requires people to be okay with losing some comforts and privileges - this is also true for Luigi’s path, but the appealing part of Luigi’s path is that it “only takes a few” (which as previously stated I disagree with) to affect that change, and those few get to be “someone else” and never the “I” in question. The “I” in question gets to remain at home, on their device of choice, talking about how good-looking, and cool, and heroic the “some else” who took the risk is, and make memes about it.

And that’s one reason I feel so bad for Luigi. While the CEO is the scapegoat of the true (or at least more powerful) capitalists, Luigi is the scape goat of “revolutionaries” who don’t really engage in any praxis.

Your reply isn’t really relevant to what they said. You can feel solidarity with Luigi and still think the murder was morally wrong and shouldn’t be celebrated.

Yeah, I hate being kinked limited. Like, just let me experience things, ya know?

This is from June 2020.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says he is planning to effectively annex parts of the occupied West Bank in what would be a major - and highly controversial - act.

This is from July 2023.

Israel Is Officially Annexing the West Bank

A quiet bureaucratic maneuver by Netanyahu’s government has begun transferring control over the occupied territory from military to civilian leadership—violating international law.

Here’s an entire wiki page about all they’ve been doing in the West Bank since 1967.

This is nothing new, it’s just a next step that would have been taken regardless.

There are more articles out there reporting on the same thing. Just because it might not fit your preconceived notions, or the narrative that you have already decided on, it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

Here, for example, if you scroll down:

We’ve just heard from two people from Britain’s Jewish community who attended the football match in Amsterdam.

(…)

“We got to one of the central areas and we saw mopeds turn up and some guys started beating an Israeli guy going back to his hotel," he says, adding they were referring to his religion and stomping on his head.

(…)

“Shortly after, the same men that had attacked the Israeli came up to us right into our personal space, saying are you Jewish? We said no, we are British," he says.

(…)

“They were looking for Jews not just Israelis,” he says.

This coming from British men, as reported by the BBC. BBC also release this article a couple of day ago; do you think they are just running propaganda for Israel?

Just because Israel is committing genocide in Palestine, you don’t have to condone or try to downplay this type of behavior. You can support Palestine and still acknowledge that this behavior was grounded in antisemitism. Or do you find it unlikely that in central Europe, and with the rise of the far right, there are Nazis and other antisemites? Not to mention football hooligans are usually quite right wing.

Well, Jan 6 happened after the 2020 elections, and Trump has got nuttier and more openly extreme. His rallies and speeches this year leading up to the elections have been on a different level. I though more republications would be rethinking their choice to back him at this point, enough that Kamala could win despite a poor performance. Unfortunately, I was very wrong about that.

Fair enough, nice gotcha, it still doesn’t change anything that I said.

Also, I forgot to add it to the other comment, and then I was just going to leave it out, but now I’m here again, so:

Yes it’s a start. What do you expect? The entire power grid and entire vehicle fleet to be redone in 2 years? Things take time

Fuck your “things take time”, especially in a country that is both one of the richest and most polluting countries per capita in the world. A bunch of the world is becoming uninhabitable, storms become more frequent, some places are having a harder and harder time growing food, panama had to relocate people who lived on an island due to rising sea levels, and things are going to get exponentially worse, but “things take time guys, we can’t rush it!”

Let me ask you this: are you vegan, avoid using plastic as much as possible, use public transport/walk/bike whenever possible, try to minimize your consumption as much as possible, try to buy locally, and overall do you just try to ethically consume? Or are you one of those “it’s the government and corporations who have to do something”? Because you certainly can’t be the second and then, when talking about one of the richest and most polluting countries in the world, say we need to take things slow.

You think that green energy isn’t left? Debt relief isn’t left? What planet are you on? Do I have to say left [of center]? Jeez.

No, it’s not left. I’ve already explained to you why. If I then drive a monster truck everywhere and eat steak for every meal, but then I install a solar panel in my house, does that make me an environmentalist?

This election shows that Gaza didn’t matter one iota. Ukraine didn’t matter one bit. They didn’t even register, no one cared. Even your own human rights didn’t matter. It came down to inflation, housing, and further on the right xenophobia. Clinton was right “It’s the economy, stupid”.

Jesus, I really do honestly try not to be rude, but the amount of stupidity in one paragraph mixed with the arrogance is off the damn charts. Firstly, Hillary, the person you’re quoting, lost the fucking election; secondly, neither candidate in this election was against selling weapons to Israel, both of them together had less than 50% of American citizens voting for them, and one of them - the one that has the largest overlap with pro-Palestine voters - lost the popular vote to the Republicans, which hadn’t happened to Democrats since 2004, and your conclusion is “Gaza didn’t matter and here’s another Dem loser’s take on it!”. Careful that you don’t get hemorrhoids with how hard you’re shitting these takes out.

I did not say “so far left”. Do a ctrl+f and you won’t find those words. I said: “If the left doesn’t show up after Biden did green energy, IRA, student debt relief, non-compete clauses being banned via FDA, etc”.

Yeah, which implies those are very leftist measures and policies. Would you say “if the leftists don’t show up to support racial segregation (…)” - no you fucking wouldn’t, cuz it’s obviously not a fucking leftist measure, is it? And neither are those, they are measures even most centrists agree with.

guess what fucking direction the Dems are going to sprint to? Yeah the Dems are going to sprint to the center. Because the left never shows up, or doesn’t exist.

They’ll sprint to the center because that’s historically what they always do, in this and other elections, and in other countries as well - refuse to compromise with the left, appeal to center and center right, and then blame the left when they lose. This isn’t news for me and plenty of other people budy, we predicted this might happen and what the reaction would be - the only thing I didn’t predict is that so many people would still support Trump - but plenty of people literally saw the writing on the wall about the support for Kamala and called attention to it, but the democrats don’t want to accept reality, just as they didn’t accept it in 2016.

the reality, as indicated by this election,

The reality indicated by this election is that less than 50% of Americans voted for either Kamala or Trump, and after Kamala had immense support and raised $1 Billion after replacing Biden, she attached to Biden, courted the center-right, and ended up losing the election.

Everything you said has nothing to do with the left, they are basic as shit things that event center and center-right European parties would do. I mean, what does the sentence “did green energy” even mean to you? The US is one of the largest polluters per capita in the world, installing a few solar panels means jack shit. Starting to heavily invest in public transportation, putting forth serious proposals to reduce the use of plastic, etc. would just be a start.

Meanwhile, they were also running on an anti-migration platform, just not as bad as Trump - remember how Democrats were so proud of the fact Trump shot down a Dem proposal that would reduce immigration?

Also, remember when Obama was elected on an anti-war policy in 2008? He even won a Nobel Peace Prize! And remember how Trump was elected in 2016 on a “pull back troops from the Middle East policy”, standing opposite to “Hillary the Hawk”?

Meanwhile, while most of the world condemns Israels actions, and millions of people in the US protest the US involvement in the ongoing genocide, both candidates are in favor of supporting and giving weapons to Israel.

If your argument is “but Biden was so far left”, then you’re a perfect representation of what is wrong with the Dem party and the US in general.

Edit: I almost forgot this beautiful (\s) fucking cherry on top: Dick fucking Cheney endorsed the Dems. And you seriously wanna make the argument they couldn’t have gone more left?

Some of what you said is relevant, but none of it has to do with Palestinians. That’s my fucking point. I said a million times Trump is worse, but for Palestinians it makes no difference.

Israel decides to “annex” the West Bank. The settlers who are forcing Palestinians out of their family homes will have the backing of the IDF/US military. The people who are displaced will be executed.

They are already working towards that, they’ve been annexing the west bank for a long while, and they don’t need US troops for it.

This is from 2020.

This is from July 2023.

Here’s an entire wiki page about all they’ve been doing since 1967.

US troops sent to Israel to aid the IDF in their genocide of the Palestinian people in Gaza

The genocide is already happening. And again, whether US soldiers or just the IDF are involved is irrelevant for the people being killed, it only matters for the Americans being drafted.

Israel decides to use chemical weapons to clear out populated areas, because at this point there’s no point in pretending to care about civilian casualties.

They already don’t care, they’ve killed aid workers, journalists, and countless children. They’ve raped and tortured prisoners.

Netanyahu has the IDF go door to door executing Palestinian women and children, and then run over their corpses with bulldozers (again)

Exactly, “again”. Do I need to say more?

And everything after that is about what Trump will do to people in America, about which we agree on, and I’ve already pointed out several times is not my point. My point is, for the last time, Trump is not materially worse for the people living in Palestine than Kamala, and pretending that he can do worse to them is to whitewash what is currently happening and to downplay the decade long genocide.

He’s already working towards doing that. What I have asked, repeatedly, and which neither you nor anyone else has even tried to answer, is how, concretely, is Trump going to make it worse than it already is? I’ll repeat myself for the millionth time: a bomb will kill regardless of whether it was supplied by Bide, Kamala, or Trump. A bomb will turn things to rubble no matter if it was supplied by Biden, Kamala, or Trump.

So once again, repeating myself like a mad person, tell me concretely - stop giving vague as fuck answers - concretely, what can Trump do to materially make Palestinian’s life’s worse?

Come back in 6 months when Gaza is nothing but a steaming pile of debris and revisit this conversation.

I have news for you.

That was 11 months ago.