No vote is worthless. It’s worth one vote at least, and potentially much more.

I’m not sure how you mean exactly, but okay. The political system is a result of the voting. If non-voters expect to gain faith via these latest results, i’d argue that is also poorly reasoned.

And how does not voting help that? And howd you get to 50%?

Cool.

Cool cool cool.

Wow they are oozing rizzle.

I think.

Believe it or not, generation after generation of American citizens understood that it was their right and duty to vote. And to defend that right.

But a few months ago a whole slew of people right here happily waxed vitriolic about how voting itself was “collusion” and “supported genocide” and other insane shit, and thanks in no small part to them we are now going to get screwed at every level - corporate, governmental, societal - every day, for years.

intentionally not voting when one can, is definitely a cause.

Well, for one, we can foster a sense of civic duty to vote.

For two, we can focus on rideshares, ways to make voting by mail easier, things like that to remove obstacles to voting

For three, we can focus on defeating the evil measures set into law by generations of republiQans to prevent people from voting such as voter ID laws (although that horse has probably left the barn), robo calls, gerrymandering, challenging voter eligibility, things like that.

Those are three main areas that will help people vote. The Democrats are on board with all of them. The republiQans are actively working to demolish all of them. If someone wants to vote for Jill Stein or their gramma or something - fine, we can argue about that later. At least it’s participation in the fundamentals of democracy.

Well that sucks and I hope we can fix it so you can vote. It will be harder now that the cheaters are writing all the laws again but it wasn’t easy before and we did it.

JUST VOTE.

That’s it. That’s the whole of it.

Anything else is something else. I’m blaming the NON-VOTERS. People who voted are not in that data set.

No. There’s all kinds of people that don’t vote because they’ve accurately assessed that the system resists changing to reflect their needs.

They’ve inaccurately assessed it because not voting is the one thing they can do that will help exactly zero people.

Imo, the problem is that the DNC is leaving voters on the table by not giving people something to show up for.

The DNC is famous for listening to idiots. It’s a fair point. but “not giving people something to show up for” is also wrong. See [everything that’s going to happen for four loooooooong goddamn years] for more information.

Every racist policy, every fascist federal judicial appointment, every foreign policy nightmare, every economic disaster, dog-forbid another global fucking pandemic - ALL would have been avoided.

So they didn’t show up to prevent that, and since that’s not enough for them - fuck them. They can fucking eat shit. Because the people who did show up to vote for a demented rapist will be shoving shit down on us the whole time.

Fools.

Nah, miss me with that shit. I voted for Kamala

So then we’re all good here. You did what you could, end of story.

The rest of it - how politics in the US today works; how it should - is standard disagreement.

Blaming the voter is a trap, it’s not actionable, and it’s setting the democrats up for failure all over again.

Blaming the voter is extraordinarily important and apt. The people who didn’t show up fucked us, and by extension the planet, over. Furthermore they now wish to be absolved for fucking up extremely badly. No.

As for setting the Democrats up for failure, I disagree with that too, but I see your point there.

It’s literally the least and most important thing you can do.

Them too.

Get this tattooed onto your brain: people (who aren’t republiQans) who refused to vote Democrat are going to get the shit kicked out of them - along with the Democrats - for at least two, very likely four years or more.

If they voted, but for someone else, OK. That’s standard disagreement. Fine.

But for those who chose to not vote at all - you suck. You deserve the shit sandwich trump is going to make us all eat. And a lot of people posting prior to the election were very out loud and proud about not voting. They need to understand what they got and why they got it.

Voter blaming is self-defeating

Non voters are self-defeating. that’s the fucking point. If someone voted, then they did what they could!

You have to convince me I’m wrong, not get huffy and claim superiority in an attempt to bully complicity.

You have to prove you’re right, as you made the ridiculous unsupportable claim. I’ve already proven it, you refuse to admit it. Let’s move on.

If we applied anti-trust scrutiny to the parties, there would be forced breakups and structural barriers to them entrenching their grip.

Uh, sure. Or we could apply RuPaul’s Drag Race scrutiny to the parties and put tape on their doors to make sure they’re not sneaking out. They’re not businesses with products and markets. There’s a fundamental reason we don’t treat them like businesses (although the analogies are admittedly obvious). It’s because your scrappy, revolutionary Pokémon Go party deserves to meet, advocate, advertise, and run for office without being audited by the Shithole State Assessor and OSHA.

So, again, no.

There used to be more than two parties that got EC votes in the US, evolving going through schisms and mergers as they react to electoral realities.

. . . Agree? And? The resulting duopoly - a foregone conclusion - means boo Democrats bad? What’s your point. EC is mandated duopoly. Let’s get rid of it and whatever your point might be can be rendered mercifully moot.

Stein is controlled opposition, yes. But you’re swinging at ghosts - I want STV/ranked choice/etc and third party coalitions in Congress, not a token protest vote without a meaningful platform or experience.

Well, we’re in agreement there. I’m not jazzed about the coalitions only because I think it’s another porkbarrel trap and I don’t have a good sense of how it would work, but, yes.

DoMA was quashed by a legal challenge, not Democrat led legislation

DoMA was an insult to humanity and all supporting Democrats should have been defenestrated from office. Ironically, the legal challenge was also from Democrats, so. I dunno. Politics.

”Bipartisan consensus on foreign policy” despite being generally unpopular, enough that even Trump got to lie and run on “no more wars”

I’m OOTL since Nov. so not sure what this is in reference to, but if existing officeholders can hold trump to anything I’m not necessarily against it.

ACA . . . failed to offer a robust government option, meekly offering repackaged private insurance under slightly better terms

Yes. And it was a huge win we wouldn’t have otherwise had. Clinton spent all his first term capital on H4A and the rest of his initiatives were bought-and-paid for with more cops and less welfare or some other political extortion. Obama got it done. It’s better. It’s not possible from any other party, period. Some good. You’re welcome. Thanks for hating the people who did the good.

Abortion not receiving robust protection from legal challenge in the last 50 years, relying on a (correct but) legally tortured right to privacy instead of a baseline agreeable standard via federal law or amendment

Yeah the protection was honored by all branches so let’s definitely lose the 80’s & 90’s to conservatives by repeatedly running on that. All you need to do is roll back other progress and find the career politicians willing to be sacrificed. Oh, the party is all-powerful, and can just make them do it? Lol.

Look at this shit - abortion is illegal and these fuckers STILL won. You want them to spend everything on a constitutional amendment to support what was already legal - and fail - to prove they’re genuine? That’s stupid. Yes they should have done everything to protect that right, they failed. AND THEN lost again. I realize it sucks. Politics sucks, what a revelation. Compromise is less fulfilling than heroic purity. Huzzah we’ve cracked it. Please.

And now the chatter is about ditching LGBTQ+ to court Hispanic and ‘moderates’ after the 2024 general…

Fuck “chatter”. We’ll get boatloads of chatter daily in the next four years. I’m out this time.

AOC just got blocked by Pelosi herself from the exact kind of ‘change from within’ you argue for.

Yeah. Which was bullshit. Pelosi needed to go awhile ago. AOC is young. And by the by, your wildly successful third parties are not chairing House Oversight anytime this century. So. You just wanna lay down in the road and die? Okay, but that is a super weird strategy for change. Good luck? I guess.

Voters (and spoilers) organized and ran a massive protest and advocacy campaign over Palestine

Yeah. Voters and spoilers. Demanding action, instant change. Spoilers. And voters. What a fantastic wedge. Worked a treat. And now, Palestine is well and truly fucked. Nice work, voters and spoilers.

I suppose we keep on with the camps and so on and hope the trump admin is more receptive? Heh. Oh well. We tried to explain this a hundred ways but it was not a discussion. No one was interested in understanding anything except now, today, immediately. Well. Anyway. You got what you wanted there. Why, I don’t know. It’s the opposite of good, but you demanded it. Okay then, now it’s here.

Unless you’re a donor or regular attendee at $3k-$500k per head fundraiser, or are one of the vanishing small intersectional group of voters who get microadvertised to death with focus tested messaging, you don’t matter to them.

No. Being active locally is free. They do listen. If you want to cut all ties with Israel and you are upset that haranguing the Poughkeepsie chair of the DNC isn’t getting it done, I’d suggest you reset your expectations of how national politics works. Coincidentally, that applies to third parties too. It’s hard fucking work if you’re not relying on corrupt racists and batshit evangelicals.

After Citizens United money is what runs elections,

Yeah. It’s a republiQan tactic and Democrats want to change it. Third parties should be helping.

and the Democrats insist on looming over the left wing political landscape and beating minority challengers, reinforcing the “losing prospect” narrative for third parties.

You mean they win elections? Why, if it only takes money? Couldn’t Jill Stein or literally any and/or all of the 52 other parties cobble together enough for a freaking House seat or, god, Sheriff of Bumfuck or something? No. They can’t. The “losing prospect” is a chimera. Quit believing in it.

Europeans manage to build actual coalitions all the time and govern effectively, listening to coalition parties (and thus voters who elected that strand of politician) whilst still managing to run an effective government.

Do they? Well good for them, that’s nice. Except the ones that don’t amirite? England, France, Germany, Australia - all having a little bit of a time with the relative conservative elements aren’t they? Hey howabout that Brexit, huh? Goddamn.

And with Mississippi having a larger GDP than Germany, and a lot of challenges Germany doesn’t have, let’s just say it’s possible an EU style governance may take more than one election cycle from naked authoritarianism.

America can legitimately be better, but you have to dare to hope for it, not resign yourself to the lesser evil every cycle, and then shout down everyone else who isn’t.

Very often it means hoping and resigning. The shouting down is an attempt to recognize we’re in serious jeopardy, but alas the idiots, thieves, and newly enlightened have eschewed knowledge, understanding, or responsibility and we are utterly fucked because of it. As to the OP, where are they now.

Massively cut election donations and establish universal FEC funding, and ditch winner takes all voting.

Agreed. And if it ever happens, in the history of this country as we know it, it will be a Democratic initiative. A mythical Congress of strong, independent, national third parties working together for common good in the next four years is more than a joke, it’s a fucking lie. You can DO - right now, today, as a Democrat, or you can NOT DO today or at any other time in the next at-least-twenty years, as a third party.

So, everyone’s allowed to just join in, then.

No, no, see what it is, is a massive failure to give us everything we want, for free, right now.

I mean. Shauh. Pff. Whatev. At least i didn’t vote!

Been hoping for something like this. Hello waiting ebooks!