a relevant passage from This Soviet World by Anna Louise Strong

You didn’t make an argument.

You ?

ah I see we’re dealing with sophisticated and nuanced racism here

A better question is why it’s so easy for you to believe such nonsense.

Except countries that have existing socialism aren’t doing that. In fact, China very openly says that their system is a product of their history, culture, and material conditions. Unlike western libs, they’re not trying to franchise and remodel other countries into their own image. Neither does Cuba or Vietnam last I checked.

What lies are you talking about?

stay mad dronie

I’m 13 and this is deep

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_property

Ah yes, Ukraine’s right to self determination after the west overthrows the democratically elected government and turns it into a literal dictatorship where elections have been cancelled. Thank you for providing a human face to the meme.

yup, and also good for sorting

Weird, because I don’t seem to think there’s any of the working class liberated there, like at all?

That’s because you’re utterly clueless on the subject and speak out of ignorance.

Just more capitalism. When do you think there will be some working class liberation there?

It already happened as a result of the revolution. One only has to compare the development path of China to actual capitalism states to see that it’s socialist. These kinds of things do not happen under capitalism.

90% of families in the country own their home giving China one of the highest home ownership rates in the world. What’s more is that 80% of these homes are owned outright, without mortgages or any other leans. https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2016/03/30/how-people-in-china-afford-their-outrageously-expensive-homes

Chinese household savings hit another record high in 2024 https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/stock-market-today-dow-jones-bank-earnings-01-12-2024/card/chinese-household-savings-hit-another-record-high-xqyky00IsIe357rtJb4j

The real (inflation-adjusted) incomes of the poorest half of the Chinese population increased by more than four hundred percent from 1978 to 2015, while real incomes of the poorest half of the US population actually declined during the same time period. https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w23119/w23119.pdf

From 1978 to 2000, the number of people in China living on under $1/day fell by 300 million, reversing a global trend of rising poverty that had lasted half a century (i.e. if China were excluded, the world’s total poverty population would have risen) https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/China’s-Economic-Growth-and-Poverty-Reduction-Angang-Linlin/c883fc7496aa1b920b05dc2546b880f54b9c77a4

From 2010 to 2019 (the most recent period for which uninterrupted data is available), the income of the poorest 20% in China increased even as a share of total income. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.DST.FRST.20?end=2019&amp%3Blocations=CN&amp%3Bstart=2008

By the end of 2020, extreme poverty, defined as living on under a threshold of around $2 per day, had been eliminated in China. According to the World Bank, the Chinese government had spent $700 billion on poverty alleviation since 2014. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/31/world/asia/china-poverty-xi-jinping.html

Over the past 40 years, the number of people in China with incomes below $1.90 per day – the International Poverty Line as defined by the World Bank to track global extreme poverty– has fallen by close to 800 million. https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/01/lifting-800-million-people-out-of-poverty-new-report-looks-at-lessons-from-china-s-experience

In fact, we can directly compare to how things are progressing in India to see what capitalist path of development looks like.

I imagine a system that is capitalist, and ran fully by the state, at the best of oligarchs. Which is exactly what China is.

It’s not, and if you actually bothered to learn about China you’d know that. You can start by reading the book I linked above.

Yep, China ticks all of those boxes.

It doesn’t as you can clearly see above. The problem with trolls such as yourself is that you just continue to repeat nonsense confidently and refuse to engage with reality.

Ah yes, we should let all the people of China know that all that wealth is actually theirs, and they are fit to use it as they deem fit, even if Xi disagrees.

The fact that you think that Xi runs China unilaterally once again shows just how ignorant you are on the subject. You don’t even understand the basics of how a political system works.

Get back to me when China actually liberates anyone in the working class.

They already have, but you don’t care about actual facts of the situation because they don’t fit with your demagogy. Bye.

Ok, I’ll bite. What makes you think China is a communist state?

China is a socialist state that established the dictatorship of the working class, and that’s governed by a Communist party that represents the interests of the working majority. Socialism is a transitional stage where the workers hold power in society, but capitalist have not yet been abolished. That’s precisely the stage of development China finds itself in today.

How does one have “nations led by communists” that are fully state-capitalist societies?

I wonder what goes through your mind when you say state capitalism. Capitalism is a system where the means of production are privately owned, and people who own the means of production exploit the workers who sell their labor to increase their wealth. In contrast, state owned industry does not exist to create wealth for a capital owning class, and the work that’s done has direct social value.

Oh, I have spent a LOT of time educating myself

It’s quite obvious that you have not based on the fact that you don’t understand the basics of the subject you’re debating.

If you understood China at all then you would know that they are in fact communists. But it’s very clear that you have an incredibly superficial understanding of the subject.

I do know what communism is, and I also understand that the fact that we live in a world dominated by capitalism that nations led by communists must exist within. Seriously spend a bit of time educating yourself instead of clowning around here.

How to say you don’t have any clue about China without saying you don’t have any clue about China. If you genuinely want to learn about China I can recommend this book, but we both know that you don’t https://redletterspp.com/products/the-east-is-still-red

And how have the Vietnamese and Cuban governments censored your speech lately? And what reach would you say they have on social media?

I’m sure you can figure out how google works all on your own. The reality is that no society practices free speech absolutism, and the only question is what type of speech gets censored. I urge you to spend a bit of time educating yourself on the subject you’re attempting to debate here instead of wasting everyone’s time.

Communists who hold power in China, Vietnam, and Cuba are just few examples.