See the part about the Democratic Party actively working against progressives, to the point of funding propaganda against them. The Dems saw the Tea Party and care more about avoiding that with progressives than they do about running candidates that can either beat the Republicans or serve the people.
And from what you just said: you’d better have never once blamed progressives for losing the Democrats an election if you’re taking the “progressives are too weak” position.
People aren’t going to like what you’re saying, but there’s an element of uncomfortable truth. Money and establishment power didn’t let the neocons beat back the tea party movement. I desperately want solid progressives, but the ones who appear on my local ballot are either obviously unfit or don’t garner enough votes from a “moderate” electorate. And I live in a rabidly “blue” area.
There is a hearts and minds campaign that progressives have continuously failed at, and blaming democratic elites solely for this failure is no more accurate than Democrats blaming progressives for their losses. Politics in a democracy is coalition-building, and we’re apparently all failing together.
Gonna continue to call bullshit here. The grassroots movement failing to gather momentum in the face of propaganda at the cost of the nation’s future is not the same as the Democrats blaming a minority for their own failures. Not even a little bit, can you please reflect a little on how absurd that claim is?
You’re also not comparing apples to apples here. First: the Tea Party was an unknown element, there hadn’t been a growing fringe movement like that within a major party for a century. The Democrats had the benefit of seeing that happen on the right. Second, the Republicans were willing to embrace the crazy of the Tea Party for the sake of their continuing victory. Very much in contrast, the Democrats are very clearly willing to sacrifice national victory in order to keep progressives down. Three elections in a row they’ve insisted on running the most centrist candidate possible, resulting two very predictable losses and one surprising victory.
Democrats insist on siding with money and corporations every time, their failures are their own fault, and very much also the fault of their supporters.
You’re talking about national elections, and I’m talking about presence in state and local elections. Candidates with a sustainable/viable chance nationally must first have an established local presence. That base builds credibility and sustainability for a movement, as others in the movement can also point towards local or state wins to justify their own candidacies.
I also happen to be familiar with my state Democratic party chairs. The idea that they could be systemically suppressing progressives in state or local elections would require a level of competence and political acumen I’ve never seen them demonstrate. They barely have control over their party, as is. I’m connected to the political world in my state both personally and professionally, and the concept of Democrats being able to exert this kind of control is actually laughable.
The bottom line is that you’re mad that Democrats don’t support your candidates, and Democrats are mad you don’t support theirs. Both attitudes are unproductive. In the end, if either progressives or Democrats wants to pick up votes, they’re going to need to actually persuade voters to show up and vote consistently, and not just in federal elections. This will include voters you don’t necessarily like or fully agree with. You know who ran candidates in and voted for every single school board race? The damn Tea Party.
I quite agree with what you’re talking about with local elections.
But you’ve misinterpreted what I’m mad about. I’m not mad that they don’t support progressives. I’m mad that the Democratic Party (the DNC, not your local party chairs) spends more time and effort demonizing and sidelining progressives than learning to work with us. That has effects all the way down to local primary elections where voters who have been fed anti-progressive propaganda are voting against progressive candidates.
What I’m mad about is not the lack of support, I’m mad about the absolutely ridiculous hypocrisy of a party clearly working against progressives at every turn and then blaming us when they don’t get their way.
As a side note, I’m also mad that the progressive movement has a lot of real shitty candidates in local elections. Many of them are clearly just absolute weirdos who shouldn’t be anywhere near an elected office. But a small movement isn’t going to have the reach everywhere. My House rep is progressive, and I get to watch as the person that represents me gets hamstrung by their own party time after time after time. And then the very same Party blames us for Donald Trump. It’s absolutely infuriating.
Are you with Democrats or not? You act like it’s some shadowy cabal. People just go vote in a primary. Progressives don’t win. And my main point is- Republicans voted in the primary for their far most right candidate but still voted Republican in the general. They trained the party to move to the right, like a dog.
Progressives either 1) aren’t numerous enough to do anything like that or 2) get upset and either never vote in the primary or sit out both the primary and general when their preferred person doesn’t make it.
Again, either way theyre irrelevant. This is the uncomfortable truth the op is talking about. Like Bernie and Aoc are popular yes? Holding rallies that get a lot of support? Then where are the rest of progressives?
I am left of the Democrats, and do not feel represented by what they do (regardless of what they say). I vote in Democratic primaries to try to move the party left. I vote D in the general. But you continue to dismiss what I’m saying. You seem to agree that the Republicans trained their party to move to the right but act like it’s some crazy idea that the Democrats are doing the same thing? The wrong side is winning within the Democratic Party, and we’re all going to lose everything because of it.
I’m not saying they’re a shadowy cabal. They’re very openly anti-progressive, no shadows necessary. They spend so much of primary time shitting on progressives and then complain when progressives don’t want to vote for their neoliberal hacks in the general.
If you’re taking the “progressives are irrelevant” position, please make sure to never blame progressives for the losses of the Democrats. Not even nonvoters. If we’re not important enough to justify catering to, then we’re not important enough to blame. You don’t get to eat our cake and shit in it too.
The DNC is spending a lot of money and effort to keep Progressives down. See Bernie 2016, see lack of proper primaries in 2024, see having some old ghoul with cancer snap a seat from AOC to then retire a few month later because of his cancer.
And yet progressives say their policies are so supported and yet they can barely get Anyone elected.
Begs to wonder how that makes sense too or else they would’ve tea partied the dems by now.
I wish it were true but either progressives are too few or too lazy. Either way, same result.
See the part about the Democratic Party actively working against progressives, to the point of funding propaganda against them. The Dems saw the Tea Party and care more about avoiding that with progressives than they do about running candidates that can either beat the Republicans or serve the people.
And from what you just said: you’d better have never once blamed progressives for losing the Democrats an election if you’re taking the “progressives are too weak” position.
If progressives were numerous enough that wouldn’t matter.
Somehow the magats got their psychos in power over a number of years. Progressives don’t.
People aren’t going to like what you’re saying, but there’s an element of uncomfortable truth. Money and establishment power didn’t let the neocons beat back the tea party movement. I desperately want solid progressives, but the ones who appear on my local ballot are either obviously unfit or don’t garner enough votes from a “moderate” electorate. And I live in a rabidly “blue” area.
There is a hearts and minds campaign that progressives have continuously failed at, and blaming democratic elites solely for this failure is no more accurate than Democrats blaming progressives for their losses. Politics in a democracy is coalition-building, and we’re apparently all failing together.
Gonna continue to call bullshit here. The grassroots movement failing to gather momentum in the face of propaganda at the cost of the nation’s future is not the same as the Democrats blaming a minority for their own failures. Not even a little bit, can you please reflect a little on how absurd that claim is?
You’re also not comparing apples to apples here. First: the Tea Party was an unknown element, there hadn’t been a growing fringe movement like that within a major party for a century. The Democrats had the benefit of seeing that happen on the right. Second, the Republicans were willing to embrace the crazy of the Tea Party for the sake of their continuing victory. Very much in contrast, the Democrats are very clearly willing to sacrifice national victory in order to keep progressives down. Three elections in a row they’ve insisted on running the most centrist candidate possible, resulting two very predictable losses and one surprising victory.
Democrats insist on siding with money and corporations every time, their failures are their own fault, and very much also the fault of their supporters.
You’re talking about national elections, and I’m talking about presence in state and local elections. Candidates with a sustainable/viable chance nationally must first have an established local presence. That base builds credibility and sustainability for a movement, as others in the movement can also point towards local or state wins to justify their own candidacies.
I also happen to be familiar with my state Democratic party chairs. The idea that they could be systemically suppressing progressives in state or local elections would require a level of competence and political acumen I’ve never seen them demonstrate. They barely have control over their party, as is. I’m connected to the political world in my state both personally and professionally, and the concept of Democrats being able to exert this kind of control is actually laughable.
The bottom line is that you’re mad that Democrats don’t support your candidates, and Democrats are mad you don’t support theirs. Both attitudes are unproductive. In the end, if either progressives or Democrats wants to pick up votes, they’re going to need to actually persuade voters to show up and vote consistently, and not just in federal elections. This will include voters you don’t necessarily like or fully agree with. You know who ran candidates in and voted for every single school board race? The damn Tea Party.
I quite agree with what you’re talking about with local elections.
But you’ve misinterpreted what I’m mad about. I’m not mad that they don’t support progressives. I’m mad that the Democratic Party (the DNC, not your local party chairs) spends more time and effort demonizing and sidelining progressives than learning to work with us. That has effects all the way down to local primary elections where voters who have been fed anti-progressive propaganda are voting against progressive candidates.
What I’m mad about is not the lack of support, I’m mad about the absolutely ridiculous hypocrisy of a party clearly working against progressives at every turn and then blaming us when they don’t get their way.
As a side note, I’m also mad that the progressive movement has a lot of real shitty candidates in local elections. Many of them are clearly just absolute weirdos who shouldn’t be anywhere near an elected office. But a small movement isn’t going to have the reach everywhere. My House rep is progressive, and I get to watch as the person that represents me gets hamstrung by their own party time after time after time. And then the very same Party blames us for Donald Trump. It’s absolutely infuriating.
Are you with Democrats or not? You act like it’s some shadowy cabal. People just go vote in a primary. Progressives don’t win. And my main point is- Republicans voted in the primary for their far most right candidate but still voted Republican in the general. They trained the party to move to the right, like a dog.
Progressives either 1) aren’t numerous enough to do anything like that or 2) get upset and either never vote in the primary or sit out both the primary and general when their preferred person doesn’t make it.
Again, either way theyre irrelevant. This is the uncomfortable truth the op is talking about. Like Bernie and Aoc are popular yes? Holding rallies that get a lot of support? Then where are the rest of progressives?
I am left of the Democrats, and do not feel represented by what they do (regardless of what they say). I vote in Democratic primaries to try to move the party left. I vote D in the general. But you continue to dismiss what I’m saying. You seem to agree that the Republicans trained their party to move to the right but act like it’s some crazy idea that the Democrats are doing the same thing? The wrong side is winning within the Democratic Party, and we’re all going to lose everything because of it.
I’m not saying they’re a shadowy cabal. They’re very openly anti-progressive, no shadows necessary. They spend so much of primary time shitting on progressives and then complain when progressives don’t want to vote for their neoliberal hacks in the general.
If you’re taking the “progressives are irrelevant” position, please make sure to never blame progressives for the losses of the Democrats. Not even nonvoters. If we’re not important enough to justify catering to, then we’re not important enough to blame. You don’t get to eat our cake and shit in it too.
The DNC is spending a lot of money and effort to keep Progressives down. See Bernie 2016, see lack of proper primaries in 2024, see having some old ghoul with cancer snap a seat from AOC to then retire a few month later because of his cancer.
You forgot too whipped or too in denial.