There is additional reporting from the Chicago Sun-Times and it’s now unclear if a gun was fired or if ICE used a burner phone to call in a report of shots fired
Unless there is video proving it, it didnt happen. Nothing ICE says is true.
If someone shoots at masked, unidentified intruders, who could blame them?
Uh, every single lemmy commenter who shows up in every thread in the last 9 months scolding everyone who tells people that eventual armed resistance to ICE is inevitable, and that purely peaceful resistance is insufficient to accomplish anything materially impactful against ICE, its basically just a a giant virtue signal circle jerk of positive vibes, at best its a run the clock delaying/harassing tactic against violent armed facsist paramilitary criminals.
Oh, also most moderators who like to delete such comments and ban such people for ‘advocating violence’.
You know, American (neo)liberals, turbolibs, people who are either historically ignorant and/or cannot concieve of all their cherished norms and values actively imploding, even though the news is full of stories about that every single day.
We already know these wannabes love to false flag themselves. Several times in the last few weeks they’ve been caught lying about being threatened, assaulted, hit and dragged by cars, etc, only to be disproven by video. So until we have something more concrete than a couple anonymous feds saying that some guy fired shots at them out of a car and then disappeared, I’ll be assuming they just made this shit up.
How would anyone know a bunch of masked guys in unmarked cars are ice agents?
They were trying to kidnab an “unaccompanied” minor. Crazy.
Is this what the 2nd amendment is fir?
Yes.
That is literally exactly what it is for, in a ‘spirit of the law’ sense, from the historical standpoint of when it was written.
Oh, the government has become tyrannical and oppressive?
Make tyrants afraid of their subjects again.
Many of the Founders imagined something like a constant, ongoing, roughly every generation or two, just total revision/rewrite of the whole Constitution / Federal Government… its just that the system they designed did not actually allow for this, in practice.
This is why ‘Originalism’ is just laughably stupid as an approach to high level legal theory, because the actual, directly stated ‘original intent’ of a huge chunk of the Founders was that we should be able to adapt and make large, fundamental changes on an ongoing basis, throw it all out and start over if necessary.
Main problem is that its very ineffective when the army is better trained and equipped than you are
Read the Seven Pillars of Wisdom for insights into asymmetric warfare.
Didn’t stop the founding fathers, the Vietnamese, the mujahideen etc… Resistance, is very effective. Occupation takes a lot of money and manpower, much more than the occupied need to muster. The Taliban would pay a kid to fire a mosin rifle So resistance, is very effective. American firebase then run. The base would spend way more time, money, and resources at that point trying to find who did it and stop it.
That’s why you don’t attack foot soldiers, you attack logistics.
Attacking foot soldiers is fine, if planned well. The trick is getting away and not simply becoming martyrs. If the feds are knocking on your door 6 hours after your little escapade, and the knocker they’re using is a 15 pound block of steel with 10 guys in full swat style body armor and mp5s… well, the ‘resistance’ isn’t going to last long.
The biggest asset any resistance needs is support and the second biggest is invisibility. Americans actually have a portion of the invisibility, since it’s in their backyard, so to speak. They can easily blend in with the general population. The massive amount of cameras and drones and license plate trackers and such are trying to remove that, but it’s not complete at the moment. The support is where we can say a resistance has no chance right now. Imagine if you were in a city, knowing ice is operating in it, and you hear gunshots. A loud pounding is heard at your door a few minutes later, and you can see on your camera/through your window/out the peephole that it’s a mangy looking dude with panic in his eyes. Are you going to open your door and let him in, then deny his presence as cops start swarming the area?
On the internet, all the tough guys will say yes. In reality, we know the answer is going to be much more… fluid.
Like an EMP deployed at ICE staging areas?
Like fart spray in the ICE locker room.
They would act very differently if they expected armed resistance at every corner. This isn’t a war.
Sure, day 1 is ICE, but any meaningful success in attacking them will be followed by a military deployment
But will they follow the order. This is of course why they are purging the generals right now. But it won’t take more than a few high ranking officers who refuse an order to fire on unarmed civilians (which you know trump will demand) and then the snowball is rolling. Trump will order other troops to fire on those troops, and they will refuse… Trump may think this is what he wants. But I have some faith in our military. It won’t take too many to start things rolling.
This is why I’ve considered an idea for all those cities occupied by our own troops right now…
I’m thinkin’, everybody should get really buddy buddy with the troops. Take the kids to meet them. Give them water bottles on a hot day. Make smalltalk. Ask about their families. Get on a first name basis. No ulterior or subversive motives, like legit BEFRIEND these people.
The way fascists justify turning the military on anyone is dehumanization.
Maybe Corporal Huggins could be ultimately convinced to attack “Those rebellious protesters.” But is he going to be as willing to fix his rifle on “Armin, that guy who always asks how I’m doing” and “Barbara, who brought us donuts that one time”, or “George, whose little boy Eric thought I looked so cool and thanked me for keeping the city safe”?
It’s stupid that they’re there. They mostly think so too, and if we bond over that, I think it could increase the chances of better outcomes when the orange Caligula escalates his insanity.
Winning a population with “hearts and minds” can work both ways.
The hellspawn in office are counting on us to cower and keep to ourselves, or violently lash out and justify death in return. Either way they would get what they want.
Who knows, I’m just daydreaming here but maybe eventually we’d even get the military’s support in rocking the absolute shit out of ICE if they catch a van of LARPing terrorists coming to drag their friends away.
We need to solidify our bonds as human Americans, before these filthy outsider monsters that captured some cushy chairs succeed in turning us violently on each other when we should be coming for them.
While I agree, and have said similar. Someone pointed out to me that at least in oregon, the guard troops that showed up were from a pool of guard members that volunteered for this specific duty. So it could be they wanted the money, or it could be that they share the opinion of the administration. Oregon is considered a very blue state because of portland. But by area, it’s a very red state. I don’t think there is any real way to know the opinions of those guard troops. But I think it doesn’t hurt to try.
(agh, double post. Redacting. Lol)
bovino even has the nazi hair cut to go with it.
Frankly surprised it took this long:
What’s crazy about all this…
Multi-billionaire Governor JB Pritzker keeps saying ICE has to go thru him for ICE to be in his state, and ICE keeps going into his state and violating human rights…
But surely if a multi billionaire was lying, all the multi-billionaire owned news organizations would tell us, right?
/S
I live in a suburb literally bordering Chicago and I can be in the city itself in 5 minutes. I’m in several Signal groups dedicated to rapid response and all sorts of other groups that help. There have been abductions happening literally a block from my house on a couple of occasions.
I’m not sure what you expect Pritzker to do, exactly? The feds have a lot of laws that allow them to be here and there’s a ton of other red tape and weird loopholes. For instance, an ICE free zone means specific property. Hypothetically, a Home Depot which serves customers can declare itself an ICE free zone but really the only private spots that Feds cannot enter are things like the break room, meeting rooms, and staff areas. So they can legally chase anyone through a store.
People are videoing everything and ICE and Border Patrol generally stop being so bold with numbers and multiple cameras on them. My point is, people are doing what the can to resist but unless you want us firing guns and starting a war - we have to play this through our own tactics and the courts. Many police won’t even respond when they are called about agents in vehicles with no front plates. This is happening all over.
Once again, I’m not sure what you want Pritzker himself to do. He’s signing things into law and supporting tactics the people are using. There’s so much legal stuff going on and people aren’t just going to start a war.
They’re mad at the rich and desperate to connect two bad things
This is lemmy. They want the earth sun and moon and anything less is fascism.
I’m not sure what you expect Pritzker to do, exactly
Weird…
You don’t have any idea what powers a Governor has?
I’ve noticed that a common thing in people which positive feelings toward neoliberal governors.
They control the police, they can arrest ICE for harassing citizens of their state against their wishes.
Like…
You know we fought a whole civil war over this, right?
The slave states wanted to send feds into free states to “deport” free Black people to the south to be slaves. Lincoln refused, and the South started a war they lost.
But since the oligarchs bought off both parties to push for a stronger fed now everyone is convinced that we have a strong fed that can do shit like this and states are powerless.
Even when it’s literally an oligarch doing this shit.
If someone has a billion dollars they’re not on the people’s side. Which should be really easy to tell when someone has multiple billions, yet here we are
I’ve noticed a common thing in the type of people who accuse others of having positive feelings toward nEoLiBeRaL governors.
They have no concept of how nuanced topics work.
All you all can do is smugly accuse people of shit they’re clearly not doing- and it is because you cannot imagine that it is possible for a thing to not be either black or white.
The person you responded to said nothing positive at all about Pritzker. They simply stated facts as they see them. YOU saw it as your shining moment to arrogantly punch down at someone that simply shared their take.
Your shit smells just as bad as everyone else’s. The sooner you come to terms with this, the sooner people will start taking you seriously.
I’m blocking you now, but by all means, feel free to respond with whatever rhetoric you feel compelled to hurl my way. I’ll be sure to read it as soon as possible!
I’m blocking you now,
You don’t need to notify people, it works without that…
Not gonna join in on the insults tho.
Although, it should be obvious why the fans of billionaires never want to talk about what actually can be done.
Interesting!!! You are the singular person who has thought of this, huh? The group I’m in with mayor of my village, lawyers, and local politicians/political candidates for state have not ever thought about this or considered that as a possibility?! I’m surprised you’re not running for governor with these solutions…
Reality, friend, is different than that you THINK can and should happen. You are also ignoring that people DO. NOT. WANT. TO. START. A. WAR. The governor does not want to start a war. Having cops just go around arresting federal agents will escalate the situation to have Trump authorize martial law and actually enact the military. There isn’t a coalition of states to call upon to defend one another that I know of which this sort of provocation would require.
I appreciate you thinking you know what can happen, but that’s probably a good reason why you aren’t in charge. Your solution would hurt people. I’m actually involved in this shit and I see the discussions by people more in the know than you and me.
Interesting!!! You are the singular person who has thought of this, huh?
This is literally the same as when trump first hears something, before he forgets it he runs around telling people:
You’ll never believe this, no one knows this…
Understanding that others know things we don’t is a very very important step of development, that the vast majority of humans accomplish before 1st grade.
However, trump isnt alone.
Like you could have googled it yourself, you could have asked a question or for sources…
Instead you wanted everyone to know your ignorant opinion, because for some fucking reason you think ignorant opinions and verifiable facts are indistinguishable…
Because, again like trump, you can’t tell the difference because you do not know the difference.
You don’t even live here and aren’t involved. You think you know the answer, but it’s not the answer people want because of repercussions.
Once again, I’m involved in groups that are resisting and coordinating. If your answer was seriously a good solution, it would have been done on any of the areas that ICE and CBP are active.
Feel free to respond, but I’m not responding anymore to someone that’s just spouting anger on a public forum and has no personal stake in things going on here.
